RE: No postnews or other Usenet news utilities?

["Bruce Wehr" <bruce at wehrhere dot com>]

Matthew wrote:
> Bruce Wehr wrote:
> > I was introduced to Usenet on or about 1985.
> > See how many times I've been flamed.
> 
> Ok, I accept your challenge. This post, and the previous one, 
> are at fault. I don't know what reputation you have on 
> USENET, and I don't have time to kill "finding out", but 
> you've already grossly violated netiquette for *this* list 
> not once, but twice.

Twice?  Interesting ...

> First off, go read <http://cygwin.com/lists.html> (which you 
> should have read before posting *anything*)

Hmmm ... I did so, and find your assumption otherwise very presumptuous.  I
hope you don't mind, but I'd like to share with the group that which I said
to you in a private email.

<- begin email quote ->

I did read that page, front to back, top to bottom and left to right before
I posted.  I searched the list archives, feeling *sure* that this question
*had* to have been addressed already.  I was truly surprised that, in all
these years, nobody seemed to raise the question.

I used to be an HP-UX admin, so I *know* the headaches associated with
administering mailing lists and newsgroups. I *know* how tiresome
inappropriate, off-topic and repeat questions can be, and how often an
"RTFM!" reply is the best I could squeak out.  I thought I had done my due
diligence, chose the right mailing list and shown the proper respect before
posting.  No, I am not a spammer.  Would a spammer bother to take the time
to do all I have done?  I think my only violation [ed: in my original post]
was being too long winded (as you pointed out), but that's just me (and I
even apologized for that at the end of my original post).

<- end email quote ->

> <http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#TITTL>
> which describes what you should have done with this latest 
> post.

Okay, as a new visitor to the Cygwin web site and mailing lists, I never saw
a reference to this.  This is an appropriate, informative page for newbies.
Perhaps a more prominent pointer on the web site is called for?

> To summarize: we didn't need three pages of hysterics and 
> back-story to come with your question.

Three pages of back-story was probably inappropriate, I will give you that.
I did apologize for that.  As for hysterics, I didn't see any in my original
post; those all came later.

> There, see? That was *much* easier and more pleasant to read,

Agreed, and point taken.  Apologies to all.

> was not hysterical, and summarized both your problem (which, 
> incidentally, has nothing at all to do with Cygwin) and the 

Nothing at all to do with Cygwin?  It *is* a Cygwin question!

As for my second post (which indeed *did* contain hysterics!), if that was
inappropriate for the main Cygwin list, all I can say is: <pouting and
pointing my finger at Dave> "He started it!" :)

> I agree with both comments. Please follow them next time.

I honestly thought I had.  I did my due diligence and, having found nothing
on the web or in the archives, I felt that I followed the appropriate
protocols.

> IANAUU (I am not a USENET user), but I would think the 
> purpose of regional groups is to post about items that *are* 
> specific to a region. 
> If your item is *not* specific to a region, then IMO you 
> should restrict yourself to posting in non-regional forums.

Well, that's one interpretation.  Things like cars and houses and such.  If
you live in Florida, you don't want to be bothered with ads for used cars
for sale in California.  Completely understood.

Another interpretation says, the item I'm selling *is* available to
Floridians (even though I don't live there), because I ship there.
Floridians deserve to know that this is available.  (It is a rather rare
item.)

There will be many folks who use the first interpretation; others who use
the second.  If you side with the first, then the best we can do is agree to
disagree.

> I'll concede that *.forsale sounds like 
> a bunch of groups whose purpose of existence is to be the 
> target of directed spam.

To me, "spam" is like a shotgun.  Indiscriminate blasting that not only
covers the intended target, but wholly inappropriate targets too.
(Collateral damage? Like if I tried to post to all 100,000+ groups.)  I look
at *.forsale groups like newspaper classifieds.  Since I'll ship my item
anywhere, including Florida, would you fault me for taking out a classified
ad in a Florida newspaper to advertise my auction?  Now, if I lived in
California and was selling my used car, it would be silly for me to take out
a classified in Florida.

> As for your impression of Dave Korn, you might want to 
> re-read your OP, read 
> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> and then 
> ask yourself (especially considering that many people 
> consider such excessive cross-posting to be spam) if you're 
> still surprised by Dave's response.

As I told you in private email, Matthew, I consider your response much more
civil and helpful to me than the keyboard-lashing I got from Dave.  Yes, I
may have broken ML etiquette with my original post (though it was not for
lack of effort, and I still think my only crime was being too long winded),
but there are more considerate and polite ways of letting me know I did so
(such as yours).

As for my second post, my only regret was calling Dave an uncivil name.  I
should never have stooped that low.  Dave, you may read this list, but I'm
CCing you too (just in case), because I would like to apologize for that.

Anyway, I just ran out of wind.

P.S. There may be a problem on the Cygwin web site: in the 4th paragraph of
the http://cygwin.com/lists.html page, there is a prominent link labeled
"intelligent question."  There is another link shortly thereafter labeled
"problem reporting guidelines."  They both link to the
http://cygwin.com/problems.html page.  From the "problems" page, you can get
to the http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html page through a
link labeled "smart questions."

Shouldn't the "intelligent question" label on the "lists" page take you
directly to the "smart-questions" page?  Seems to make more sense to me.
Just a thought.

<>< Bruce